Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

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Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Jaikiran Pai
I was about to send a mail to the user mailing list about the Ant
nightly job which publishes the daily snapshots, so that they can test
some bug fixes and new features (JUnit 5 in particular). However, I
happened to read the Apache release policy[1] which states regular users
aren't even meant to know about such snapshots.

That seems a bit too restrictive, especially for open source projects.
Is that documentation being followed and if it is, then I guess I
shouldn't be letting the user@ mailing list know about these snapshots
nor ask them to test out the new feature?

After reading that policy, I'm starting to wonder if the Jenkins job
should even publish these snapshots.

[1] http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#publication

-Jaikiran


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Re: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Gintautas Grigelionis
Thanks for pointing this out. To me, it means one thing: release more often.
The way I read it, publishing is not forbidden per se, but rather
advertising.
That's consistent with GitHub repo clones being available, but without
"clone me at GitHub" ribbons.

On the other hand, I rewrote the manual (which was still talking about CVS),
suggesting that the proper way to propose code changes would be a GitHub PR
rather than an archive uploaded to Bugzilla, so please correct me if I'm
wrong before
Ant 1.10.3 gets released...

Gintas

2018-03-17 13:07 GMT+01:00 Jaikiran Pai <[hidden email]>:

> I was about to send a mail to the user mailing list about the Ant nightly
> job which publishes the daily snapshots, so that they can test some bug
> fixes and new features (JUnit 5 in particular). However, I happened to read
> the Apache release policy[1] which states regular users aren't even meant
> to know about such snapshots.
>
> That seems a bit too restrictive, especially for open source projects. Is
> that documentation being followed and if it is, then I guess I shouldn't be
> letting the user@ mailing list know about these snapshots nor ask them to
> test out the new feature?
>
> After reading that policy, I'm starting to wonder if the Jenkins job
> should even publish these snapshots.
>
> [1] http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#publication
>
> -Jaikiran
>
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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AW: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Jan Matèrne (jhm)
I dont see the automatic snapshots as a problem.
We should not ask "all" users to use them, but for single users that may be ok.
They are "testing" (means DEV) the current/upcoming version against their (problematic) scenario.


Jan

> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: Gintautas Grigelionis [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Gesendet: Samstag, 17. März 2018 22:49
> An: Ant Developers List
> Betreff: Re: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant
>
> Thanks for pointing this out. To me, it means one thing: release more
> often.
> The way I read it, publishing is not forbidden per se, but rather
> advertising.
> That's consistent with GitHub repo clones being available, but without
> "clone me at GitHub" ribbons.
>
> On the other hand, I rewrote the manual (which was still talking about
> CVS), suggesting that the proper way to propose code changes would be a
> GitHub PR rather than an archive uploaded to Bugzilla, so please
> correct me if I'm wrong before Ant 1.10.3 gets released...
>
> Gintas
>
> 2018-03-17 13:07 GMT+01:00 Jaikiran Pai <[hidden email]>:
>
> > I was about to send a mail to the user mailing list about the Ant
> > nightly job which publishes the daily snapshots, so that they can
> test
> > some bug fixes and new features (JUnit 5 in particular). However, I
> > happened to read the Apache release policy[1] which states regular
> > users aren't even meant to know about such snapshots.
> >
> > That seems a bit too restrictive, especially for open source
> projects.
> > Is that documentation being followed and if it is, then I guess I
> > shouldn't be letting the user@ mailing list know about these
> snapshots
> > nor ask them to test out the new feature?
> >
> > After reading that policy, I'm starting to wonder if the Jenkins job
> > should even publish these snapshots.
> >
> > [1] http://www.apache.org/legal/release-policy.html#publication
> >
> > -Jaikiran
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email] For additional
> > commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >


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Re: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Stefan Bodewig
In reply to this post by Jaikiran Pai
On 2018-03-17, Jaikiran Pai wrote:

> I was about to send a mail to the user mailing list about the Ant
> nightly job which publishes the daily snapshots, so that they can test
> some bug fixes and new features (JUnit 5 in particular). However, I
> happened to read the Apache release policy[1] which states regular
> users aren't even meant to know about such snapshots.

The idea of the policy is that users must be aware they are using
something that hasn't been tested extensively and may contain
bugs. Nobody should consider the snapshots production ready, that's why
they shouldn't get advertised outside of the developement community.

People who are willing to test a feature under development are part of
the development communinity :-)

If you reach out to the user list and ask people to test the junit5
feature, this is fine IMHO. Telling them to use the SNAPSHOTs as a way
to fix a certain bug is not (while it is OK to use it as a way to verify
the fix, this is subtle).

Stefan

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Re: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Stefan Bodewig
In reply to this post by Gintautas Grigelionis
On 2018-03-17, Gintautas Grigelionis wrote:

> On the other hand, I rewrote the manual (which was still talking about
> CVS), suggesting that the proper way to propose code changes would be
> a GitHub PR rather than an archive uploaded to Bugzilla, so please
> correct me if I'm wrong before Ant 1.10.3 gets released...

As long as what you write is consistent with CONTRIBUTING.md which also
recommends github PRs by now, this is fine :-)

Can you point us at the changes you've made?

Stefan

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Re: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Gintautas Grigelionis
Starting from

https://rawgit.com/apache/ant/master/manual/tutorial-tasks-filesets-properties.html#contribute

to the end of document. Cf

https://ant.apache.org/manual/tutorial-tasks-filesets-properties.html#contribute

which still talks about Java 1.2, CVS, etc

Gintas


2018-03-19 8:35 GMT+01:00 Stefan Bodewig <[hidden email]>:

> On 2018-03-17, Gintautas Grigelionis wrote:
>
> > On the other hand, I rewrote the manual (which was still talking about
> > CVS), suggesting that the proper way to propose code changes would be
> > a GitHub PR rather than an archive uploaded to Bugzilla, so please
> > correct me if I'm wrong before Ant 1.10.3 gets released...
>
> As long as what you write is consistent with CONTRIBUTING.md which also
> recommends github PRs by now, this is fine :-)
>
> Can you point us at the changes you've made?
>
> Stefan
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Re: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Stefan Bodewig
On 2018-03-19, Gintautas Grigelionis wrote:

> Starting from

> https://rawgit.com/apache/ant/master/manual/tutorial-tasks-filesets-properties.html#contribute

> to the end of document. Cf

> https://ant.apache.org/manual/tutorial-tasks-filesets-properties.html#contribute

> which still talks about Java 1.2, CVS, etc

Ah, I see. I guess nobody of us has been aware the tutorials contain
contribution guidelines (at least I wasn't).

IMHO it would be better to have a single place that talks about it and
link to it from inside the tutorial and wherever else. CONTRIBUTING.md
is really only there for github, maybe a new page on the website under
the "Contributing" section?

Stefan

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Re: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Gintautas Grigelionis
2018-03-19 9:20 GMT+01:00 Stefan Bodewig <[hidden email]>:

> On 2018-03-19, Gintautas Grigelionis wrote:
>
> > Starting from
>
> > https://rawgit.com/apache/ant/master/manual/tutorial-tasks-
> filesets-properties.html#contribute
>
> > to the end of document. Cf
>
> > https://ant.apache.org/manual/tutorial-tasks-filesets-
> properties.html#contribute
>
> > which still talks about Java 1.2, CVS, etc
>
> Ah, I see. I guess nobody of us has been aware the tutorials contain
> contribution guidelines (at least I wasn't).
>
> IMHO it would be better to have a single place that talks about it and
> link to it from inside the tutorial and wherever else. CONTRIBUTING.md
> is really only there for github, maybe a new page on the website under
> the "Contributing" section?


Sounds like a good idea. Then Ant Task Guidelines [1] could be trimmed and
refer to contribution guidelines.
Maybe Ant Task Guidelines could be exposed under under "Contributing" as a
landing page,
and the relevant information could be moved into the manual?

Gintas

[1]  https://ant.apache.org/ant_task_guidelines.html
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Re: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Stefan Bodewig
On 2018-03-19, Gintautas Grigelionis wrote:

> Maybe Ant Task Guidelines could be exposed under under "Contributing"
> as a landing page, and the relevant information could be moved into
> the manual?

The tutorials as well as the Ant task guidelines have always been only
attachments to the manual to me, YMMV. I for one am completely on the
fence with whatever anybody wants to do with them.

Stefan

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Re: Snapshot access to regular users of Ant

Gintautas Grigelionis
2018-03-20 18:03 GMT+01:00 Stefan Bodewig <[hidden email]>:

> On 2018-03-19, Gintautas Grigelionis wrote:
>
> > Maybe Ant Task Guidelines could be exposed under under "Contributing"
> > as a landing page, and the relevant information could be moved into
> > the manual?
>
> The tutorials as well as the Ant task guidelines have always been only
> attachments to the manual to me, YMMV. I for one am completely on the
> fence with whatever anybody wants to do with them.
>

It would be easier to have the site in Git, too.

What we need is

   1. contribution guidelines
   2. task guidelines (that refer to 1)
   3. tutorials that refer to 1 & 2

For starters, we need to decide whether both guidelines should be a part of
the manual or of the site.

Sorry for passing the buck, but I believe you have the authority to put the
fence in the right place ;-)

Gintas